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Sub Weekend, Sheringham, North Norfolk, Sat/Sun 30,31 July 2022

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» My collection of fibreglass moulds.
Not the hobby I expected :) EmptyYesterday at 3:35 pm by david f

»  Submarine weekend, Sheringham, Norfolk,30th and 31st of July 2022
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» WW2 mini sub build
Not the hobby I expected :) EmptySun May 22, 2022 10:43 pm by SimonH

» Papplewick Pumping Station 2022
Not the hobby I expected :) EmptySat May 21, 2022 9:39 am by david f

» Akula 1/144 scratch build
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» Darnell U class wanted
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» New modeller looking for U-Class to build
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» K class plans
Not the hobby I expected :) EmptyFri May 13, 2022 10:18 am by david f

» Radio ideas -27Mhz
Not the hobby I expected :) EmptyWed May 11, 2022 12:29 pm by david f

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    3 posters

      Not the hobby I expected :)

      cat
      cat


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      Not the hobby I expected :) Empty Not the hobby I expected :)

      Post  cat Mon Mar 21, 2022 10:41 am

      Hello. I think I've decided I want to be a submariner at least once in my life.
      I did some reading around and decided I want to experiment building a 'simple' WTC basically containing radio, a peristaltic pump, and a latex balloon to see what it takes to make: sub go down; sub go up. I have a 3d printer so I think I should be able to make ABS end-caps and some modular internals. Propulsion later, I thought.

      This all being well I started looking at radio, because I've been in 2.4GHz land and didn't know about this *water* stuff. Turns out this isn't a boat hobby at all is it? It's a radio hobby!

      I *think* I want to go along the turnigy x9r + 433Mhz modules route, but I don't know how to set up the build to re-flash them to 458Mhz. I have re-flashed my 3d printer brain though so I assume it's not a dissimilar process.

      So, hi. I'm cat. Total newbie and quite intimidated by the radio proposition :)

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      david f
      david f
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      Not the hobby I expected :) Empty Re: Not the hobby I expected :)

      Post  david f Wed Mar 23, 2022 11:11 am

      Welcome Cat and welcome to the intimidated!

      Like why is everything so difficult underwater??

      The radio proposition is not easy because we are running out of options for commercial radio gear.

      If you already have 433Mhz equipment, I think I would stick with that for a bit. (Assuming you are from the UK, we are lucky that we have a legal channel on 458Mhz.)

      David

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      Post  cat Wed Mar 23, 2022 9:28 pm

      What I'm a bit short on is what wires I need to plug into the OrangeRX stuff, and in fact where the plug is. Also how to build the source to tell it to be 458 not 433 and there's something about an ID which needs to be unique or they'll fight with other robots?

      I have a tube in the mail, I have printed a test end cap which I have parametrically modelled so I can easily tweak it. I've had an educated guess at orings, picked up some threaded rod and nuts, and a seawolf turned up today as well.

      12 bladed prop?! gosh. Now I have the kit i can take some measurements off it and try and source some driveline gear.
      motors and gearboxes... soooo muuuucchhh to learn :)
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      Post  tsenecal Fri Mar 25, 2022 7:56 pm

      what you need for the firmware updates on the hobbyking/orangerx devices are some pins soldered to both the TX module pcb and RX pcb, so that you can connect one of these:

      https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222727769676?epid=8010050952&hash=item33db9c0e4c:g:5bcAAOSwZW5aFB08

      or one of these:
      https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264206118002?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item3d83e96c72:g:-uEAAOSw-Slg6PcR&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAAA8PiqHeSbc%2FjnngAKaoDg9saD5pJUhCgbcQ%2BvkoF4xcRSvsKVuU9tDuLy95Q4o4oodtHkOMWeJ5hAAIBconJGlj4FbIY950znLft7w%2FXKivTI6v6IeSnYhbG4tXQBal6LS9UzoJ0UXuN59joQVBGvVpCwuMlXkldHOsYSGQ%2BZIhCUOlElP0yLal%2Fb%2F2zty1arFrNqcoAqiifDXxA24H6XDCJM8ttxj26gMrc%2FgZXL%2FSNaHBJ2BR5767I%2B5sUFpIW3sfPBbOPloa3l4FF0CpHOK6KgvSWBSr5jwnNRrdUIN%2FEQDbLOmU1VKeMSUkf16hxPEQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBMzLzZqfhf

      they are basically the same thing, they convert from your computer's usb to the arduino's serial pins, they are just two different manufacturer's models, kind of like lotus vs jaguar.

      the openlrsng website gives a pretty good indication of where you will need to solder things to the pcb's:
      https://github.com/openLRSng/openLRSngWiki/wiki/Hardware-Guide


      and finally, all the firmware changes are done with the configurator and the google chrome web browser:
      https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/openlrsng-configurator/focgpgmpinbadijfcdimbdkgnpndjnkl?hl=en


      you really don't need to recompile firmware, just update to a current version of the firmware, and change some settings.  it sounds worse than it is.


      the most difficult part of this is making sure the hardware you bought actually works.
      second is getting the pins soldered to the right spots on the OrangeRX pcb's.

      once that is done, you are golden.

      years ago, i made a few videos explaining the configurator, not sure how useful you will find them, but on my youtube channel:
      https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCL_1eC-FviM4R00iePJUbBA/videos

      search for "chiplrs" in the videos...  i think there are 3 "episodes"





      as to any questions....    ask!   i am sure either myself or David can answer them...  and we are happy to see you join the OpenLRSng club...

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      cat
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      Post  cat Sun Apr 03, 2022 1:27 pm

      Thanks for those links @tsenecal!

      I've not made much progress on anything. Pump and radio still haven't shown up.

      I've mainly been playing at amateur CAD and 3d printing internal bracketry for parts that have and haven't shown up.
      I had a moment when I thought the dive pump wouldn't fit between the compression rods for the WTC but I think I've got everything to fit, I'll know when the real pump surfaces. 46mm ID is NOT a lot of space but a 2200mAh 3s battery will squeeze down it, I'm not sure I'll need that much power though and a 1000mAh battery would take up much much less length.

      I've found out that a relatively local boat club has a shallow wadeable pond AND has submariner members so I'm going to shamble along one weekend soon and say hi.

      I've also belatedly finally understood that i COULD have been working in an 80mm tube not a 50mm which would be cavernous in comparison, lol. Aot sure whether to order a larger tube and scale up, or persevere with the cramped version.


      Last edited by cat on Sun Apr 03, 2022 9:19 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : woke up)

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      Post  cat Tue Apr 05, 2022 1:47 pm

      I'm not sure what I bought and if it's the wrong thing. seems to want to work with an APM?

      Not the hobby I expected :) 51984269539_4f232dcc8e_c

      a bit frustrating because the 9 channel RX modules that I suspect I'd understand don't seem to exist anymore. Hrm :(
      cat
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      Post  cat Sun Apr 24, 2022 11:24 am

      Things are looking gently down (up being not what we're trying to do with a sub so much)
      I don't really know what that usb dingle is for, I see references to bumping firmware with it.
      It comes up as a pl2303 converter in dmesg which looks like a serial convertor. openLRSng doesn't want to use it for anything anyway.

      Not the hobby I expected :) 52026144889_ba9937848b_c


      I've ordered the second of your links, tsenecal. I'm a bit nervous that it can do 3.3 and 5v but on different pins, so I'm not sure if the logic on the tx and rx pins will be 5v regardless. I have a scope though so I can probably find out. I believe we don't want 5v on ANY pins right?

      One thing I need to learn soon which I don't understand is 'dive controller' what is one of those and what are examples of them? I was planning to use a 3 way switch on the tx for 'fill bladder' 'empty bladder' and mid position for 'stop doing either' what does a dive controller do beyond that switching?

      oh the radio 'works' i powered it up briefly and it wiggled a servo and then i turned it off so I hope ofcom won't come for me.
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      Post  tsenecal Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:06 am

      the usb dongle is for upgrading the firmware.  you will want to upgrade the firmware.  long story short, the stock hobby king/orangerx software sucks.

      you are correct, all the 433/458mhz equipment uses 3.3v, so we do not want 5v anywhere.


      one other note of warning that may be too late, but NEVER run the RX or TX without the antenna.


      a "dive controller" may be one of three things...

      a ballast tank controller, which is basically a smart speed control for the ballast tank, and simple ones provide exactly what you describe.

      a "depth controller"  is a more sophisticated device that actually figures out what depth you want to be at (using a rotary knob on the TX usually) and by using a pressure sensor, allows you to basically decide what depth you want the sub to be at.

      a "pitch controller" is a device similar to a gyro on a helicopter,  it keeps the sub on an even keel as you are driving the sub forwards or reverse. it will not do anything if the sub is sitting still. it is designed to stabilize the pitch of the sub so you don't have to worry about keeping a constant "dynamic" depth while the sub is moving.  use the ballast tank controller to get the depth you want, then the pitch controller keeps it even and stable at that depth.

      the most sophisticated subs will use both a depth controller and a pitch controller together to have a consistently obtainable constant depth no matter what the sub is doing.

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      Post  cat Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:17 pm

      Hmm, I have no idea how that usb dongle could do firmware, but it doesn't matter because a usb-uart thingy showed up.
      With some nerves I scoped it out and prodded it with a meter and I couldn't find anything over 3.3V on any pins other than the 5V pin which I studiously ignored.

      Obviously I have no clue what firmware is on the tx units as they're from ebay, but clicking 'connect' on the openlrsng thingy got a reply of a unit id or something but no connection.
      I went and smashed the firmware button, guessing which item from the drop down was the right choice and clicked to flash it, which it did successfully.
      a wee clicky of 'connect' later and to my surprise:
      Not the hobby I expected :) 52035375372_508a29a772_c

      so I think all I need to do now is bind that to the RX and reconfigure that to 458MHz too. Thanks for the advice about this.

      Oh luckily I already knew to leave the antenna connected so we're fine there.

      Is this the sort of thing I'm looking for for a dive controller? https://www.mr-rcworld.co.uk/shop/dive-pump-controller/

      I'm sort of trying to start simple with just an ATC which sinks and resurfaces and I'll move on to drive system and control planes later. This is a lot to absorb.
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      Post  tsenecal Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:35 am

      cat,

      first, you seem to be doing well with this. so far your instincts have been "correct".

      the link to the dive controller is the device that gives "sink/stop/rise" for your ballast tank. you can buy the cheaper "standard" model without the failsafe. the 458mhz equipment comes with a much better failsafe mechanism built into it.

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      Post  cat Fri Apr 29, 2022 8:01 pm

      What I can't find currently for love, money, or frantic prayer of any kind is: WHAT TWO THINGS TO CONNECT TOGETHER ON THE RX TO MAKE IT GO BIND MODE GRRRRRRRR
      hahaha, can you help?
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      Post  tsenecal Fri Apr 29, 2022 10:34 pm

      cat wrote:What I can't find currently for love, money, or frantic prayer of any kind is: WHAT TWO THINGS TO CONNECT TOGETHER ON THE RX TO MAKE IT GO BIND MODE GRRRRRRRR
      hahaha, can you help?


      this is a video i made describing that exact function:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50mAgYoCL7M
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      Post  cat Fri Apr 29, 2022 10:40 pm

      apologies, i wasn't confident that would work for me because i have 'different' hardware, but it's probably the same stuff relabelled?

      I need to flash the RX firts the same way i did the TX though right? with the ftdi wired up to its pins.
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      Post  tsenecal Sat Apr 30, 2022 12:36 am

      cat wrote:apologies, i wasn't confident that would work for me because i have 'different' hardware, but it's probably the same stuff relabelled?

      I need to flash the RX firts the same way i did the TX though right? with the ftdi wired up to its pins.


      the Receiver and Transmitter module have to be using the same version of the firmware before they will bind. and all OpenLRSng products basically work the same way.

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      Post  cat Sat Apr 30, 2022 12:34 pm

      Thank you for your patient assistance. TX and RX are updated, binding was easy and it's now working on 458MHz and wiggling a servo.

      The TX is a bluetooth version, but sadly the chrome app doesn't seem to like using the bluetooth connection, I note the BT module in the unit doesn't connect to the DTR pin, so perhaps that's why.

      Next steps for me, working out what speed controller I want to use so I can power the rx inside the WTC and carry on with the cad to print a new shell for my peristaltic pump to fit inside the tiny space in the 50mm tube :P (I really should move to 80mm considering there IS that much room in a seawolf shell)

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      Post  tsenecal Sat Apr 30, 2022 4:34 pm

      cat wrote:Thank you for your patient assistance. TX and RX are updated, binding was easy and it's now working on 458MHz and wiggling a servo.

      The TX is a bluetooth version, but sadly the chrome app doesn't seem to like using the bluetooth connection, I note the BT module in the unit doesn't connect to the DTR pin, so perhaps that's why.

      Next steps for me, working out what speed controller I want to use so I can power the rx inside the WTC and carry on with the cad to print a new shell for my peristaltic pump to fit inside the tiny space in the 50mm tube :P (I really should move to 80mm considering there IS that much room in a seawolf shell)


      glad to hear you have the radio sorted out...

      i presume you are talking about the trumpeter 1/144 seawolf?   go for the 80mm WTC, your fingers will appreciate trying to fit stuff into the bigger WTC.

      there are a ton of small 10-15amp brushed ESCs available on ebay. get one without a brake.

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