Please feel free to delete it but I think this is important since it could be the death of our hobby!
Once again my thanks to everyone for their valuable (if slightly dusty!) contributions:
David ForrestAssociation Of Model Submariners
2.4Ghz and submarines?
I've just bought myself another Futaba FF9 transmitter not least because I am concerned about the future of 40 Mhz (which we need for submarines) and because the Flyboys are offloading them on Ebay (Going to 2.4ghz etc.)
The one I got came with a 2.4Ghz Spektrum module. The question is can i use this for anything... useful (Polite answers only please!) If I bought a receiver could it be used for aircraft AND surfce boats or just one or the other??See More
September 30 at 11:37am ·LikeUnlike · Comment
Richard J Huggett As far as I know David, 2.Ghz is legal for all boats and aircraft(and cars as well.) My Chinook helicopter came with a 40Mhz radio when I bought it, but the new upgraded versions come with 2.4Ghz radios.
The plus benefit is that you can buy ...an rx and use it in a surface boat, buy another rx and use it a plane, a car or a helicopter with the same tx.
I've had three GiantCod 2.4Ghz outfits and never had a problem with any of them.
http://www.giantcod.co.uk/giantcod-24ghz-6channel-mode2-digital-transmitter-plane-versio-p-403852.html for the six channel version.
http://www.giantcod.co.uk/giantcod-24ghz-6channel-mode2-digital-transmitter-plane-versio-p-403852.html for the four channel version.See More
September 30 at 11:46am · LikeUnlike.David Forrest That's very interesting stuff. Thanks.
September 30 at 12:40pm · LikeUnlike.David Forrest I didn't realise that 2.4Ghz is legal for surface and aircraft use. That is a big benefit but a shame it doesn't get through a few mm of water.
September 30 at 2:11pm · LikeUnlike.Richard J Huggett I had a long chat to Andy L about using 2.4Ghz in a surface running sub, but the end conclusion was that it wouldn't really work, not even if the rx was mounted high up in the sail there would still be the problem of sealing the connections through the deck. Andy also seems to think the signal wouldn't penetrate the wtc very well either, because the majority of it would be below water. As you say David, it's a great shame, with the really low prices on 2.Ghz equipment nowadays.
September 30 at 2:59pm · LikeUnlike.William Macleod i tried it in a sub with the extention rx module in the sail and as the water level came up to the Rx the radio went into failsafe.
September 30 at 7:13pm · LikeUnlike.Richard J Huggett I guess that sort of answers the question David...one good thing though, with all the flyer boys selling up their 40Mhz equipment, there should be some good deals for us.
October 1 at 9:02am · LikeUnlike.William Macleod the problem is that the flyers are on 35Mhz which is for aircraft only.
October 1 at 9:30am · LikeUnlike.David Forrest Yes, but if you buy sets such as the Futaba FF9 which has plug in modules in the back, you can change them to 40Mhz easily.
October 1 at 9:36am · LikeUnlike.David John Jacques 2.4 can be used on any model boat, plane or car
October 1 at 1:01pm · LikeUnlike.David Forrest Thanks, Dave. So it is a really handy system - shame we can't use it!
October 2 at 8:41am · LikeUnlike.Paul Cook I have been "stocking up" on futaba 8-9 channel Rx's & my xtal frequency as i feel we are going to lose the 40mhz equipment soon.
I have the futaba 14mz with 40 mhz module as a FF8 as a back up.
October 7 at 5:14pm · LikeUnlike.Richard J Huggett I've just bought a Corona rx from HobbyKing on 40Mhz and I'm just about to order a couple more...just in case Paul's prediction comes true.
October 7 at 5:54pm · LikeUnlike.David Forrest Paul has an interesting view which is presumably based on Ripmax and Futaba thinking. The main problem wil be that the manufacturers stop offering 40Mhz quite soon. I imagine that the Govt. will keep the "frequency slot" unsold for a fe...w years more.
Once the frequency slot is sold we will be quietly illegal. I've always wanted to be a real pirate!See More
October 8 at 9:42am · LikeUnlike.Paul Cook Hello all, as you know i work at HobbyStores, owned by Ripmax(main UK Futaba importer), we also deal with Hitec, Jeti, Sanwa, Spektrum as a model shop, my fear with us all as submariners ALL of the new radios coming out other than the odd 2... channel sets on 27mhz are on 2.4ghz, there nothing from the above companies on 35mhz of 40 mhz, the use of 2.4ghz has allowed these companies to save money essentially as they only have to make one set of gear rather than say a set on 35 and 40 as in the past, as the 2.4ghz is legal for everything from cars, trains, boats, planes helis, tv cameras etcetc, but as we know its totally useless to us.
Now all the model submariners in the worlld could write to futaba etc to "protest" etc, how many model submariners are there? i can tell you that there are about 40,000 registered BMFA (british model flying assciation) members in the UK alone, let alone the AMA (american equivalent) who are all now most probably using 2.4ghz, heck i now use it to fly models on. So my advice to you all is if you see 4 + channel upwards 40mhz gear in a shop offer the shop to buy for a cheaper price than thyre asking, they will probably be glad to see it to you! Yes you read correctly USE YOUR LOCAL SHOP - otherwise that will be the next to go!!See More
October 8 at 10:16am · UnlikeLike · 1 personLoading....Paul Cook On the brighter side, alot of the "toy" market (NIKKO) etc still use the 40mhz on their models, so i dont see the 40mhz band being "sold" off just yet.
October 8 at 10:27am · UnlikeLike · 1 personLoading....Richard J Huggett That makes interesting reading Paul, I can imagine the uproar amongst model submariners if the 40Mhz/27Mhz bands were to go. We'd up like the old CB radio users(of which I was one for years)..anarchy would reign supreme in the streets!
I app...reciate your point about using your local shop, I'd love to be able to...if I had one. All I have is a model railway shop and Modelzone, neither of which is any good to me at all. I have to buy online, and just recently I've started buying online from Hong Kong...my new Corona rx cost me just over a tenner, and that was including postage to my door. By the time I'd have driven into Eastbourne, Brighton or Worthing, paid some huge fee to park my car and had to walk a mile from parking space to shop, then driven back home again, my £10 rx would have cost me twice as much.
Maybe I should move to Norwich...See More
October 8 at 10:56am · UnlikeLike · 1 personLoading....Paul Cook Hiya Richard, obviuosly you can only use your local shop if you had one, but then surely Eastbourne would have had one at some point? Model Zone, we have just had one open up in Norwich, the word "competition" was used to me by a friend, we... dont sell airfix etc we are all RC so competition, NO!
I suppose your nearest best shop is SMC in worthing, i like Westbourne in Bournemouth though, been there a couple of times.See More
October 8 at 11:17am · UnlikeLike · 1 personLoading....Richard J Huggett We used to have a decent model shop in Eastbourne named "Bob's Models", run by a chap named Bob Kinnell. He was a r/c modeller himself, and the shop was brilliant, but after a few years of trading he was running at a loss, so down the pan i...t went, more's the pity.
Modelzone don't do but very little in the way of 'proper' r/c stuff, plenty of RTF boats/planes/cars etc, but mention the word 'submarines' and there's just blank looks amongst the staff. The model railway shop is good for things such as brass tube/rod/light metal stocks and paint, but that's about it really. Oh, and styrene sheet.
SMC in Worthing is a good model shop, but due to the distance and car parking fees, I buy online from them now. They excel in that, I normally get 48 hour delivery from them, and I've never had a complaint yet with them or their service. I bought my Chinook from them, ordered it online in the morning and it was delivered at 1900hrs that evening by courier(ok, the driver lives close to me, but that is still extraordinary service in anybody's book)
I'm not sure if EM Models in Tunbridge Wells are still going, they used to be a good shop, as was Maritime Models in Greenwich...Bernie and I used to spend many a happy hour in there.
Maybe we should all make Hobby Stores the AMS's nominated store!See More
October 8 at 12:45pm · LikeUnlike.David Forrest Well it would seem that model submarines are going to go increasingly "niche" if newcomers to the hobby can't even buy r/c equipment.
BTW was the Bob mentioned above the inventor of Bob's model board speed controller. (Heavy loss, fire assis...ted speed control? Only joking they were good in an age where "carbon footprint" meant that you'd been to the coal cellar!)See More
October 8 at 2:52pm · LikeUnlike.Paul Cook There is of course the possibility that 40mhz gear may still be produced, but looking at what i see, its looking doubtfull, yesterday we had a whole new consigment of RTR brushless racing boats come in, all on 2.4ghz.
October 9 at 9:53am · LikeUnlike.Richard J Huggett David: No, Bob Kinnell wasn't the man you were thinking of, I don't know that Bob was, I can't find out anything about him.
Paul: I take it then that 2.4Ghz is much cheaper to produce than 40Mhz is?
October 9 at 10:06am · LikeUnlike.David Forrest The more I think about it, the more depressing I find it for the long term future of our hobby.
Newcomers to model subs will either have to buy elderly second hand equipment or an expensive, specialist "submarine transmitter" made by a sma...ll specialist company at a high price.
27 Mhz is no answer because it is usually only for a couple of channels.See More
October 9 at 10:18am · LikeUnlike.Richard J Huggett You still see the good old Futaba M series on 27Mhz for sale, they were good old radios, might be worth snapping one up if you see one on ebay or somewhere similar.
Or buy a shed load of Corona rx's...I've just ordered two more from HK.
October 9 at 10:21am · LikeUnlike.Paul Cook Whats even more depressing guys is this, most newcomers to this hobby wont be able to build their own model submarine, the amount of people we get in the shop "what i got to build it"?? Cant i just use it, "can you use a screwdriver sir" du...h, NO! Can you build it for me, i will pay you! they say! This is on a Tamiya car kit! let alone anything else!
I am 40 next year, i doubt there is anyone younger than me in my flying club that has build a model form a kit or plans, these so called "artf's types" that have the nerve to call themselves modellers!See More
October 9 at 10:29am · LikeUnlike.Richard J Huggett The ARTF type of model does have a lot going for it(take the Thunder Tiger sub as an instance)it does get people started in the hobby, but as you say Paul, once Mr Joe Public has bought his TT sub, does he have the skills needed to maintain... it? Or repair it? It's doubtful...
Some of the modern, up to date pre-fabbed kits are reasonably easy to assemble, but then there's the ballasting and trimming to do, the radio to set up properly, etc...I wonder how Mr Joe Public would fare with the building of an early Darnell kit from the ground up?
Is there no way that 2.4Ghz can be modified for our use with the addition of an signal amplifier to boost the tx power? Or would that make illegal to use?
It looks as though the future of model submarines is going to be limited to a pond filled with Thunder Tiger subs...or am I just depressing myself?See More
October 9 at 10:40am · LikeUnlike.Paul Cook Having built (assembled) at TT Neptune, its not actually that easy if you dont follow the instructions closely.
We in the UK are limited to power output of our 2.4ghz sets.
October 9 at 10:56am · LikeUnlike.David Forrest Well actually Paul's comment makes me less depressed. There will always be a (very few admittedlly) enthusiastic sub builders for whom assembling or modifying a transmitter for 40Mhz will be no problem compared with building a submarine. I... suppose most of the AMS membership fit in to this category.
Sheerline are going to have a problem though. I wonder if Chris has thought about this one?See More
October 9 at 11:14am · LikeUnlike.Richard J Huggett Now you're depressing me!
October 9 at 11:17am · LikeUnlike.David Forrest Sorry! Depressed is probably the wrong word anyway. Concern for the future hobbyist is it.
Where is Nigel when you need him? He is very good at thinking of solutions!
October 9 at 11:41am · LikeUnlike.Paul Cook I will ask chris when i see him, as you know he only live about 30 mins from me. He may even be on here?
October 9 at 11:46am · LikeUnlike.Richard J Huggett I can't really see the 40Mhz band going out of use, but maybe the problem will lay in the lack of equipment being readily available..ok, so there will be a large hole in the hobby for some enterprising person to set up a business specialisi...ng in building and repairing 40Mhz radios, much like the old Kingshill Navigator of bygone years.
Incidentally, I used to live next door to the chap who built these under licence, they were marvellous radios, you simply told him exactly what you needed and he would build it for you. Twin sticks, dual use sticks, multi function switches...he was a genius when it came to radios. He worked out of his garden shed, which was a local attraction for modellers, sometimes you couldn't move in our area for modellers. But, he parted company with his wife and moved away, and shortly afterwards I did the same, so I lost contact with him.
Maybe someone like Andy Lawrence would take up the challenge of keeping the 40Mhz radio alive and well?See More
October 9 at 12:01pm · LikeUnlike.Steve Juden I can see a market for an adaptor to convert 2.4GHZ radios to 40MHZ.
October 12 at 6:50pm · LikeUnlike.Paul Cook Yes it called buy a 40mhz module now?
Last edited by david f on Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:46 am; edited 7 times in total (Reason for editing : Including 433Mhz option which is starting to look promising. Helps with "Search.")