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    Beginners sub. Plans and drawings available?

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    Dagon
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    Beginners sub. Plans and drawings available?

    Post  Dagon on Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:30 pm

    Hello,

    Just starting out in this hobby.

    I've done some past modelmaking, mainly cars and a couple of boats. The boats I built from Vic Smeed plans, so I have some experience of building models from scratch.

    Most of the submarine kits I've seen available look expensive, and plans for scratchbuilding model submarines appear to be very difficult to find.

    I've seen one plan, HMS Unseen, which is a basic looking model built from sheet wood. Commercial models seem to be constructed from plastics and use cylinders. This seems to make sense to me in regard to dealing with water pressure and waterproofing, or am I on the wrong track?

    Can anyone here recommend a good plan aimed at beginners?

    Thanks,

    James

    Tom(ADMIN)
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    Re: Beginners sub. Plans and drawings available?

    Post  Tom(ADMIN) on Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:38 pm

    Hi James, and welcome to the dark side...

    Remind me tomorrow when I'm on my computer and I'll email you a shed load of stuff I have on the hard drive. There's plenty of easy to build stuff out there, ranging from simple balsa and ply construction boats, through those built from a length of plastic drainpipe, right up to scratch built fibreglass jobs...and everything in between. And there's also converted plastic kits and RTR boats...the only limitation is the depth of your wallet!


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    Re: Beginners sub. Plans and drawings available?

    Post  Dagon on Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:28 pm

    Thank you.

    I have seen pictures of some plastic kit conversions on submarine forums. They look rather small though. I was hoping to build something a little bigger that will allow me to use the radio equipment, batteries and motor from one of my cars.

    Some drawings I was looking at were on this page- http://www.myhobbystore.co.uk/browser/117/submarine

    A couple of the designs are described as using PVC pipe, but only basic drawings or fuzzy pictures are shown, so I have no idea how these are put together. Has anyone here built a model sub from these plans? Would they recommend them to a beginner like me.

    I have a reasonable selection of tools, but most of them are hand tools. Some people on here seem to have access to machine shop equipment like lathes and pillar drills. I don't have that kind of stuff. Also I think making a fibreglass hull would be a little advanced for me at present, I would prefer a model that I can build from sheet material if possible.

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    Re: Beginners sub. Plans and drawings available?

    Post  Tom(ADMIN) on Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:46 am

    Ok, few more questions...

    What's your preference...WW1 subs, WW2, or later maybe? Nukes?

    There's a couple of large plastic kits of WW2 boats, the Revell Gato at 50+", Revell Type V11 at 40ish", the one I'm about to start...the Moebius Skipjack at 42", Moebius Seaview in two different sizes, to name a few.

    There's often a couple of good boats on eBay as well, plenty of Darnell/Models By Designs subs out there, normally for sensible prices. A spot of TLC, maybe a bit of a refit, and you've got a good working boat.

    Plenty of kits and part kits available too, ranging from an X craft semi kit at £200 from Models By Design, through to the Engel range at £1500+.

    For plans to scratch build, Google 'MyHobbyStore', there's several good plans there.

    The plastic drainpipe sub, based on the Russian Charlie class is there as well...our Treasurer, David (davidf on here) has built one, have a word with him. They are nice easy build boat, and can be made to work very well.
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    Re: Beginners sub. Plans and drawings available?

    Post  david f on Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:19 am

    Hi Dagon,

    Richard is right - I have had a lot of fun with the Charlie class over the years. It is now on it's MkII version. I use a removable stern cone with an O ring seal to the main hull. There is plenty of room inside the 4" pipe for all your equipment.

    You will need to make or have made the bow and stern cones - fibreglass probably.

    The only downside if you wish to make your own cones and the O ring sealed bulkhead is that you will need to have access to a lathe. Using a bench drill to make them is just about possible with a bit of ingenuity. (Grimreaper who posts on here has that ingenuity!)

    You should see some photos of the Charlie on the main website of my version or Ian O who has also has one.


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    Dagon
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    Re: Beginners sub. Plans and drawings available?

    Post  Dagon on Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:18 pm

    Thank you for your replies.

    I'm not too concerned about the subject, just wanted something that didn't look like a shoebox, and that will hopefully work well.

    I wanted to avoid kits if possible. Even a small plastic model tends to cost £20-30, and that buys a lot of plastic sheet. Also if something breaks on a scratchbuilt model, you can replace it or repair it fairly easily and cheaply.

    So the Charlie class was built to this plan?

    http://www.myhobbystore.co.uk/product/16992/charlie-class-mm1210-submarine-plan

    The dimensions look good, and it says based on 4" PVC pipe. I have only seen 11cm PVC pipe for sale, is this what is used, or would I have to adapt the dimensions for a wider hull?

    You mention a MkII, was this an updated plan, or did you modify the design yourself?


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    Re: Beginners sub. Plans and drawings available?

    Post  Tom(ADMIN) on Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:42 pm

    Hi James,

    Yes, that's the right plan. An old member of the AMS, Dave Stevens, built one using plastic drainpipe, and for the ends he utilised sections of plastic pop bottles. I saw that boat loads of times, and it seemed to work every time he put in the water. Very easy to build too, providing you get the plastic pipe the same size as the pop bottles.

    I think what David means by the Mark 2 version is that he's worked so much on the boat and upgraded it, it's now a virtually new boat. If you ask him nicely, he may post up some pictures of it to give you an idea of how it's built. Meanwhile, I'll have a dig about in my piles of stuff and see if I have some pictures of Dave Stevens' pop bottle version.

    Another good plan is the HobbyStore Type 1X U boat, I believe it's about 50" or so in length. My U117 was a double sized version of this plan, and was an absolute monster of a boat.


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    Re: Beginners sub. Plans and drawings available?

    Post  Dagon on Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:52 pm

    Ah okay. So were these changes made to enhance the operation of the boat, or were they necessary to correct flaws in the original design?

    Perhaps intsead of mmaking GRP cones I could build cones out of plastic sheet. Plastic formers, with plastic strips cut up into planks, and make the shape that way. Anyone tried that method?

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    Re: Beginners sub. Plans and drawings available?

    Post  Tom(ADMIN) on Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:07 pm

    We call David "The Enhancer", he's got the Charlie working superbly now.

    Your method of making cones sounds ok to me, not that I've tried anything along those lines, but I can see no reason why it shouldn't work. As they say in all the best places..."there's only one way to find out"!!

    Have a wander through the "pictures from the shows" section, James...I'm pretty sure there's some pictures of David's Charlie class in there.



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    Deep Diver (Fred)
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    Re: Beginners sub. Plans and drawings available?

    Post  Deep Diver (Fred) on Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:46 pm

    Dick how about the kit you got of the type 9 based on the plans now from hobby store?

    can not remember the name of the Co



    Fred


    Last edited by Deep Diver (Fred) on Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:47 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : left out the 9)

    Tom(ADMIN)
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    Re: Beginners sub. Plans and drawings available?

    Post  Tom(ADMIN) on Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:57 pm

    Oh, forgot about that Fred...Saric Vacform, down in Bristol. About fifty quid, I believe it was.
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    Re: Beginners sub. Plans and drawings available?

    Post  Dagon on Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:26 am

    I've had a look at the photo galleries. Haven't had much luck finding pictures you mentioned of the Charlie class, but then I may be overlooking it as I only have a line drawing to go by.

    Photo gallery two has some pictures near the top that I thought might be the boat.
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    Re: Beginners sub. Plans and drawings available?

    Post  david f on Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:18 am

    Hi Dagon,

    The first one I built was exactly according to the Model Boats plan using the longitudinal flat hatch sealing method. (Let's call it the Mk1)

    It worked well but with a few hatch leaks so the second one I built (the MKII) uses a detachable stern section with circular O ring seal pushing into the PVC pipe. (I prefer this. Common German practice and simpler than a flat hatch, in my view.)

    Both of them are good performers - very clean hulls and very quick. Look good on the water but not perhaps the sort of thing you put on the Exhibition table. (Sadly!)

    And you are right, you can buy an awful lot of 110mm (4" sorry!) pipe from a builders merchants. For making the cones you may try my hot air gun method of bending PVC to shape (See the uUPVC class build on this Forum.)Your hull will end up costing much less than the R/C gear.

    The important thing is that your cones have to be strong. A model sub has an awful lot of momentum at speed and thin, brittle plastic cones will not survive any (inevitable!)impact.

    If you send me your email address I will send you a copy of the article I wrote about the Charlie in the AMS magazine. (It has photos also.)

    David
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    Re: Beginners sub. Plans and drawings available?

    Post  david f on Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:44 pm

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    Re: Beginners sub. Plans and drawings available?

    Post  Dagon on Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:59 pm

    Thanks. Okay things are getting a little clearer.

    I've sent you my email address as a PM to avoid bots harvesting it.
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    Re: Beginners sub. Plans and drawings available?

    Post  Dagon on Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:25 pm

    Files you sent through received. Many thanks.

    James

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