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    openLRS and 2.4 Ghz and Submarines

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    Hermann
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    Re: openLRS and 2.4 Ghz and Submarines

    Post  Hermann on Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:52 pm

    Hi David,
    the 433MHz band is a band for so called ISM Equipment (Industrial, Scientific and Medical) and in this scope also radio control with so called low power devices with a maximum transmitting power of 10mW are still legal, so remote car key control may be used and other applications for closer distances. But in former days 500mW transmitting power was permitted for model Radio control and that was cancelled. I think 10mW would be too low in practice for submarine purpose.

    Maybe you will find a little more 40MHz equipment on the German ebay platform but I am not so sure.

    And as I know obviously most of the German model companies do not have 40MHz RC sets in their program any more.
    Even worse - the two biggest companies, Graupner and Robbe, had got severe financial difficulties. Graupner went bankrupt about one or two years ago and was bought eventually by that Korean Company SC that made the RC sets for Graupner. Today Graupner is not the same as it was as the equipment for model production had to be sold. And actually Robbe has also difficulties. Perhaps the withdrawal of the model submarine kits by Robbe was a first indicator for upcoming financial problems. We must see how the story will go on.

    The key problem in my opinion is the lack of young people following us "old men" in our Hobby - so one day the market will become too small for several big model companies. In my youth that is more than 40 years ago modelling was of very great interest among my friends at School, our favorite literature in the breaks were the catalogues of Graupner, Robbe, Hegi, Engel, AeroNaut ..... And in every mid sized town you could find a model shop or at least a toy shop with a model department. And today?

    Kind regards
    Klaus-Dieter

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    Re: openLRS and 2.4 Ghz and Submarines

    Post  tsenecal on Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:12 pm

    Hi all,

    I thought i would introduce myself...   Tim Senecal, from Arvada, Colorado, USA.  :)

    I was pointed at this thread via the posting that David F put on model boat mayhem.  I am happy to hear that the 433/459mhz stuff appears to be working well for you.

    i simply wanted to add that most of my current posting on this topic is being done at

    subpirates.com

    specifically in the technology section


    it appears i am not able to post links for a few more days, so i will add links later if you would like.


    I have been working on two fronts as far as 433 stuff goes...

    1) much like David, i feel that the antennas that the devices come with are pretty low-end, and have been buying and building/testing new ones.   All the FPV guys are raving about a $30 antenna called the "Nagoya NA-771".  so i bought one, and i feel making my own is both less expensive, and better performing.   I have made several half-wave and quarter-wave antennas, and find my home made quarter-wave work well. in addition, since you guys in the UK are not actually running at 433mhz, i think you will probably have to make your own antennas if you want them tuned correctly for 458/459mhz... that is a small difference, but it ends up being about 1/2" or 1cm difference in length of a quarter-wave antenna. I have basically been using the online antenna calculators, and using the lengths indicated. I have not been adjusting for water. don't know if that helps you any.

    2) telemetry.  i bought a bunch of the FrSky telemetry Hubs (FSH-01), and have wired up harnesses to allow me to connect them to the 433mhz receivers, as well as harnesses that allow me to connect the FrSky display (FLD-02) to the transmitter module.   I am now getting battery voltage, amperage, temperature, and signal strength.   soon i will be adding motor rpms and ultimately depth.   activating the telemetry gives me very simple signal strength readings - "RSSI", which have improved my ability to make my own antennas.

    as to what Hermann says, I did some investigation earlier... I believe that Germany has the strictest rules of all euro nations, and 433 specifically resides within 3 different areas of regulation.   LPD433, ISM, and CEPT - "European Conference of Postal and Telecommunications Administrations",  which is basically the European equivalent of the US's  HAM....   but stricter.   IF you have a CEPT license (and not a novice license, but a full license) you will be able to use the full 1watt 433mhz systems.  but only if you have the CEPT license.  

    as to the ISM 10mw output limit...   i know the HopeRF module the 433 systems use has power output settings, and the Chrome Configurator allows you to set them.  level 3 on a 100mw system would actually be outputting 6-7mw...  Testing at that level to see what amount of penetration it gives is certainly possible.  interesting enough, the HopeRF module these use was designed for use in ISM equipment.
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    salmon
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    Re: openLRS and 2.4 Ghz and Submarines

    Post  salmon on Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:49 pm

    Welcome Tim!
    I call Tim the Mad Scientist (hope you do not mind me sharing that). He has a passion for this hobby and the gifting to be a game changer for our submarine addiction plus he is just a genuinely nice guy.

    Look forward to more details on what you are working on.
    Peace,
    Tom


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    If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.
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    david f
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    Re: openLRS and 2.4 Ghz and Submarines

    Post  david f on Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:04 pm

    Very nice of you to look in, Tim!

    I hadn't spotted your postings on SubPirates - I will be glued to it for your next installment. Very pleasing  that the telemetry works so well. Also a very interesting idea to use the signal strength feature to optimize the antenna configuration.

    Thanks again for identifying and developing the use of this technology. It could have all sorts of benefits for the sub community.

    David
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    david f
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    Re: openLRS and 2.4 Ghz and Submarines

    Post  david f on Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:01 pm

    Videos in Technorama and "Davevision"!

    Well probably not THE most exciting things you will see on Youtube but they the latest trials of openLRS system on 458Mhz with a r/c submarine at Barrow in Furness. Beeping is telemetry signal returning from sub i.e lost return signal.

    This is using the simple 328mm long whip antenna suggested by Tim S in the antenna thread.


    https://youtu.be/QW8IV-k10Kg

    https://youtu.be/OzxR7GbEVuc

    https://youtu.be/7ZWRD5Fc37E

    https://youtu.be/vujkwBSzwvc

    https://youtu.be/hbj_3xSKO18

    https://youtu.be/nEHhHNmbTsI

    The telemetry return signal introduces a new dimension to the hobby because you can continuously monitor the model. (In one video I am surprised to find that the model has surfaced!)

    I was hoping to test the quarter wave aerial but didn't have the time. The half wave  fits quite well into my WTC and presumably is more efficient anyway.

    I was hoping to test the lost model beacon signal via a walkie-talkie but, for some reason, the receiver software changed the beacon signal channel from the one I was listening on! (So maybe best to treat the software as a work in progress.)

    But overall I am very pleased with the new technology introduced by Tim S. No going back to long aerials on 40 MHz for me!

    David

    DAVE J
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    2.4Ghz and submarines (also 458/9 Mhz)

    Post  DAVE J on Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:53 pm

    The sailing trials are impressive and I thought the telemetry feedback was an interesting new dimension on performance.
    Very good David.

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    Re: openLRS and 2.4 Ghz and Submarines

    Post  tsenecal on Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:03 pm

    when you say 328mm whip antenna, is that on both the TX and RX?  perhaps a picture or two?
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    david f
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    Re: openLRS and 2.4 Ghz and Submarines

    Post  david f on Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:35 am

    Hi Tim,

    Some photos, as requested:




    From the top this shows the Orange RX with the shortest antennae I have made (Untested in a sub.)

    The next one down is the 328mm whip (Tested in the videos.)

    This was used with the bought in TX antennae shown. This was bought from:


    http://www.flytron.com/15-antennas-filters

    3dBi 433Mhz UHF Antenna (right angle)

    This is labelled as 433Mhz and so is probably less than ideal for 458 but it seems the only one easily available. (I wanted to have a short TX aerial for cosmetic, ease of use reasons!)

      I also bought a couple of these adaptors from Flytron because they can be used to make your own aerials by soldering a wire on.
     

      SMA Male to SMA Male Adapter


    Finally here are the innards of the aerial which comes with the Orange equipment. It is OK really and you can see that it has a loading coil. I suppose the thing against these antennae is that they are designed to minimize length - which is not THAT important for the RX aerial on a sub.




    Nigel suggests that with the telemetry use, it is just a question of trying a long antennae and just snipping bits off until you get the best results! And that is about right.

    The only other variable seems to be the aerial orientation. A vertical aerial could be used but the paper by Butler seems to suggest that a horizontal aerial is best because the radio signal is refracted at the surface anyway. Also the use of a ground plane seems to get a lot of discussion with the flying fraternity. I don't know if it is relevant in subs.

    (BTW sorry I started a new thread on antennae because the whole topic is perhaps best dealt with in one place. I will put the link in for completeness:
    http://www.theassociationofmodelsubmariners.com/t1529-aerials-antennae-for-458-459mhz#9388
    )

    David

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    Re: openLRS and 2.4 Ghz and Submarines

    Post  tsenecal on Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:00 pm

    David,

    yep,  looks basically like what i am doing.

    here are two of my receivers, both with homemade antennas, one solid, one floppy.



    i bought the SMA connectors off of ebay, a 10 pack was roughly $10.00, i bought a set of straight, and a set of 90 degree.

    here are a few more:



    basically two quarter-wave, and two half-wave ( ~160mm and ~320mm )



    finally,

    here is a photo of my telemetry display.   it was two numbers and bars at the bottom of the display that are the RSSI values.  Just like Nigel says, i start with a long antenna, and chop off 1mm increments until the value on the left stops going up.




    i did a little testing using this RSSI display,  i tried the original antennas that came with the OrangeRX stuff, a nagoya 701, a nagoya 771, and the home-made antennas.   the nagoya NA-701 was $10, the nagoya NA-771 was $30, and the home-made cost about $2.00 each.   of the bunch, the NA-701 had the best RSSI value, and the home-made were within 5 points of it.  interestingly, and the reason i decided to make my own, was the $30 NA-771 was no better than the original crap ones from OrangeRX.  after more analysis, I had bought a "cheap" clone, and not a real "nagoya NA-771" as advertised.  it is almost impossible to know if you are buying a real, top of the line antenna, or a knock-off, until you actually have it in your hands.

    sadly (or maybe not), the 701 and 771 are not available for 458mhz, only 433.

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    Re: openLRS and 2.4 Ghz and Submarines

    Post  tsenecal on Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:11 pm

    David,

    the FrSky FLD-02 telemetry display is available at www.giantshark.co.uk (£24), and much cheaper at hobbyking ($20). I highly recommend getting it, if for nothing other than the RSSI values.

    with the addition of one more $3 part, (FBVS-01) you can get the voltage of your primary battery pack sent back as well. the signal strength indicator, the RX battery value, and the main battery value are really nice to have.

    In a couple days (this weekend) i will be soldering up a new cable to go on my new transmitter with my second display, i will be posting that on subpirates.
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    Re: openLRS and 2.4 Ghz and Submarines

    Post  david f on Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:27 am

    Thanks for the suggestion about the FrSky display module, Tim, that would help a lot in optimizing antennae. I take it that this module using your simple interface could plug into the Orange module in my Futaba TX? (I need to read more of your write-up on SubPirates too.)

    Yesterday's experiments were at a new (very nice, local, and clear) pond courtesy of Windermere model boat club.

    The aims were to test a quarter wave antenna and to see if the lost model feature of openLRS works. (The transmission of a tone on 446Mhz PMR band (in the UK) which can be picked up by a ordinary walkie talkie.)

    I was only using transmitter beeping to indicate signal strength but it was very noticeable that the half wave aerial (328mm long) gave much better range. I could only just control out to the left hand headland with the people on it, with the quarter wave aerial.












    The last photo shows the Charlie class weighted down with lead in about 2 feet of water. (Follow the line out from the reel!)

    My Motorola walkie talkie could pick up the lost signal tone (The Close Encounters theme!) from up to 100 yards away.

    This came as a very pleasant surprise! It means that another method of locating lost subs becomes available. It would only survive for as long as the sub battery (unlike a self contained Pinger type audio device.) But it may provide more directional information than audio Pingers and it may do this in deep water?

    So wow - another potential benefit for subs opens up!

    It is also very pleasing that another club member David J is taking the plunge into 458Mhz. The more the merrier!


    Last edited by david f on Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:06 am; edited 2 times in total

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    Re: openLRS and 2.4 Ghz and Submarines

    Post  tsenecal on Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:30 pm

    David,

    first, let me say that the pond you were at looks like a great place for model subs.

    next, yes, i have cut slots in both my 100mw OrangeRX openlrsng futaba module, and in my 1watt Hawkeye futaba module.  the display works equally well for either module.  the slots were originally cut so that i could program the modules without taking them apart.  the same pins used to program the modules are the pins used to recieve and transmit telemetry data.

    because the display is designed for a slightly different protocol, a special cable needs to be made for it to work with the openlrsng modules instead of the FrSky modules.  I had made two of those cables for my Futaba 9cap radios.  I have since sold those two radios, and replaced them with Robbe FC-28s.  one of the cables for the 9c is too short for the Robbe.  i need to make a new one.






    i have also made cables that allow me to connect the FrSky telemetry hub to the openlrsng receivers in two of my submarines.  making those cables is documented in the telemetry thread on subpirates. hopefully, the new TX -> display cable will be on that same thread sometime this weekend.


    finally,  it is great to hear that the beacon feature works.  I had never even thought of using that feature.  I am curious how deep the submarine can be before the handheld no longer is capable of getting the signal.

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    Re: openLRS and 2.4 Ghz and Submarines

    Post  tsenecal on Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:19 pm

    David,

    the Subpirates telemetry guide has been updated with the making of my third tx->display cable... read the entire 5 pages to get the complete gist, since a lot of external links for specific details are listed prior to making the first receiver cable. the meat of the cable construction begins with post #9

    http://www.subpirates.com/showthread.php?5213-OpenLRSng-telemetry


    Tim
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    Re: openLRS and 2.4 Ghz and Submarines

    Post  david f on Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:20 am

    Thanks Tim. I am still not able to log in as a registered member on SubPirates so I can't see your photos. (My registration email went in as spam and now I'm waiting for moderators approval!)

    So I am not able to see all your detail but I will put an order for an FLD-02 on Hobbyking now anyway - since they take several weeks to deliver.

    In the meantime, I will see what sort of depth of water the beacon can pass through at the Barrow pond . In some ways, the lower the range the more useful it will be for sub location.

    David
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    Re: openLRS and 2.4 Ghz and Submarines

    Post  John Wrennall on Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:30 pm

    David.

    I have got the similar/same problem with the Subpirates forum, and Tim has kindly forwarded the details to Thor the administrator.

    And with one resounding blow of his mighty hammer ????

    John

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    Re: openLRS and 2.4 Ghz and Submarines

    Post  tsenecal on Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:56 pm

    Guys,

    regarding the problems with subpirates registration... I found this out on my own...

    on the main subpirates.com website, at the very bottom, is a "Contact Us" link, which leads to a page where you can enter your name, email address, subject and message to the administrator. I believe this can be done even if you are not "logged in".
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    John Wrennall
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    Re: openLRS and 2.4 Ghz and Submarines

    Post  John Wrennall on Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:13 am

    Hi Tim

    I tried using the "Contact Us" tab after my abortive attempt to register about a week ago

    but have heard nothing. We can still read the posts however.

    Theory? If an email is sent against the direction of the world's rotation, will it end up in Hyperspace?? LOL

    Cheers

    John
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    david f
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    Re: openLRS and 2.4 Ghz and Submarines

    Post  david f on Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:45 pm

    Registration finally worked for me so I have been looking at a lot of the detail of Tim's methods including   a very interesting (and forward looking) lecture. (Thanks also to Tom for making the video.)

    Just some notes about some joint trials with David J at Barrow today.

    Some conclusions:

    - We operated 2 sets of the 458Mhz gear together without significant interference.

    - Dave was using the "as supplied" aerials and these were giving reception problems. We swapped the TX aerial for the one I bought from Flytron and used the shorter (175 mm active length) home made one (as in the photo) and this combination gave significantly better reception.




    The photo shows the small 1/4 wave antenna I used today in my small Holland class sub and the half wave antenna I have used in the larger Charlie class with good reception. The numbers give the active length of the aerial (i.e the wire length in mm beyond any coaxial screening.)

    It is worth pointing out that these aerial lengths are not optimised for the 458 frequency. I really need something like Tim's LCD monitor (on order) to measure RSSI more accurately before we can improve this much.

    Another observation was that the lost model beacon transmits from a depth of 4 feet of water with a short range of about 100 feet. So it would be quite useful for lost model location. (As long as the radio battery holds out.) But it comes for "free" with the openLRS technology anyway. This range was achieved with the short 1/4 wave antenna shown in the photo. This aerial was giving control of the Holland class sub on the bottom at 4 feet without going into failsafe.

    DAVE J
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    2.4 Ghz and submarines (also 458/9Mhz)

    Post  DAVE J on Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:19 pm

    The 175mm is not what is shown on the photograph it would appear to measure 100mm?
    The trials today showed no interference between the two sets, I was getting glitches, but range checks appeared to be ok, I wondered if the RF from the RX switched off, might reduce the problem, I also had 5 servo's coupled in with no serious interaction. It looks a good system.

    Regards Dave J
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    Re: openLRS and 2.4 Ghz and Submarines

    Post  david f on Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:02 pm

    You are right, David!

    Sorry I must have made a measuring error.

    But that it the one I used and it seemed to work OK. So use that one until we know better with proper signal strength measurement ( Step the dimension off from the photo- don't count the coax bit. Or use the 332mm one - I think I  measured that one OK?!

    It is obviously a rugged system this!

    David

    30th April 2015.

    I'm editing this post rather than put this in as a reply- A summary for those of you out there trying different aerials, my findings so far.

    - Half wave, 332 mm long
    - Quarter wave, 166mm long.

    Both of these are giving good, useful ranges in models out on the pond.

    I've just been trying the 166mm long in my Holland 1 and it is a neat aerial for small models. The range is all the way out to "which way round is the model pointing."

    These trials are done without measured signal strength (I'm still waiting for the FLD-02 FrSky LCD from Hobbyking) but I'm listening to lost "packet beeps" with the Telemetry turned on.
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    david f
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    Re: openLRS and 2.4 Ghz and Submarines

    Post  david f on Sat May 09, 2015 10:02 am

    Just a quick note on this - I'm trying to get subs in the water!

    The FrSky LCD screen has arrived - very neat.

    I have wired it up using the single transistor invertor (thanks for the guidance Tim) (I will put more wiring details on here when I get a chance.)

    The panel seems to be working nicely for signal strength. The first observation seems to be that the TX aerial supplied is pretty good and about as good as the one I bought from Flytron.

    The quarter wave RX antenna in the Holland seems to suffer short range - so more development work needed. (I'm puzzled because it worked well initially.)

    Dave J reports that he has the 458Mhz setup working nicely in one of his subs.

    Hobbyking continues to be a good supplier and please note that I am buying this stuff myself (no freebies!) Fortunately this openLRS stuff is very economically priced.
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    Re: openLRS and 2.4 Ghz and Submarines

    Post  david f on Sat May 30, 2015 11:26 am

    This technology on 458Mhz is getting to be fairly "mature" so I thought a bit of a summary of where we are would be useful. I have also been asked to give a "keep it simple guide" to someone wanting to start with it. So here goes:

    Summary:


    - We have now had two modellers using this system at a pond without any problems.

    - A number of you reading this will have seen me using the gear all day at Bournville without any problems.

    - I have connected up the FrSky LCD module and data hub and used it to monitor signal strength, temperature and battery voltage. I will publish a detailed connection guide shortly but my personal conclusions so far is that it is not as useful for submarines as it obviously is for aircraft. Of the two modules, the TX mounted signal strength LCD display is the most useful, certainly for helping setup aerials initially. I actually prefer to use the "lost model alarm" built into the openLRS software. I use a cheap Walkie Talkie to monitor this and once you hear the Close Encounter theme you are getting out of range!
    I don't use the telemetry option because I find this causes mild servo jitter - I don't yet know a fix - interference presumably.

    - I have used this gear in several ponds with several model subs and the range is perfectly adequate using the normal "as supplied" 433MHz aerials. By adequate range I mean as far out as you can see the model. Submerged range is also fine. (I think I was initially a little too concerned about making special aerials. Range gains are likely to be small.)

    - The only model specific problem I have encountered has been with metal superstructure screening the aerial in my Russian Nordenfelt.


    A simple get you going guide.


    (I will just describe the basic steps. If you need more detail go back through this thread and Tim's excellent threads on SubCommittee and SubPirates. My setup is a plug in module on my Futaba 9C Tx.

    (a) Purchase the Orange 9 channel RX and TX module from Hobbyking. You will also need a PC running a Chrome Browser, a USB cable and a 3.3volt "Dongle". (Read back in this thread for the ordering info.)

    (b) When you get this try it "straight out of the box" and it should work. (Don't use it for very long because you will be transmitting continuously on 433MHz which is illegal in the UK.) Try the spectrum analyzer function while plugged into your pc and see if you can pick up your car keys when you press them!

    (c) Connect your PC up to the dongle and plug it into the pins on the TX module. (Make sure that the "DTR" pins line up. You will see this written on the back of the board. You will need to take the board out of the yellow plastic box. Most people cut a slot in the box to access the pins for later use.)

    (d) Get the Chrome browser up and running, load up the "openLRSng" app. You will see a screen with various buttons including a Firmware Flasher  (bottom LHS)

    (e) Click on Connect. You may need to click a few times before it says that you are connected (Top LHS). Then click on Firmware flasher. Select your module on the drop down box and then flash the firmware and the EEPROM. Unplug the dongle and connect up to the RX and repeat the process after selecting the correct RX. This has put the latest open LRS software into the RX and TX.

    (f) Now to setup the profile/configuration in the TX and RX. (You only need to plug the dongle into the TX because the RX is configured by wireless) Plug the dongle into the TX module. (You don't need to power up the transmitter at this stage - the module is powered by the dongle.)
    Click on connect and then on the TX Module button. A number of option boxes open up but fortunately you don't need to change much - frequency is the key one. Put a frequency between 458500 and 459500 kHz in the operating frequency box. (3rd box down on the LHS) Surface modellers are recommended to use the lower half of this band. I chose 458750.
    - I suggest you select Telemetry - No - maybe try it later?

    Click on Save to EEPROM (Bottom RHS) to finish.That is about it for the TX.

    (g) Click on the RX module button and you will get a whirly wifi symbol. Power up your RX. A beep and the RX screen will come up.

    Again not much to change. I've put a model location beacon frequency of 446043750 which transmits the Close Encounters Theme on channel 3 of a Walkie Talkie. I've set the Failsafe Delay and Beacon Deadtime delays to 10 seconds. (Yes it has Failsafe on all the channels. You press the Failsafe button on the back of the module to set them.)

    Click on Save to EEPROM when you have done. Click on Disconnect.

    (h) Now to do the Binding and you are away. Unplug the dongle. Switch the transmitter on while holding the Fail Safe Button. Release this Button when you get a single beep. You now get rapid beeps from the TX. Power up the RX and when the beeping stops, power off and then on at the TX. You will then find that the controls work on the model. Congratulations!

    (i) You can try the whole process again until you feel relaxed about it. One of the nice things is that being open software you can access everything and it is in text files. If you look along the bottom of the configuration/profile  screen you can see various options including Restore Default  and Backup this Profile. It is worth Backing up the Profile when you are happy with it. You can inspect it easily because it is  text file. The profiles I use are shown below:


    {"type":"TX_single_profile_backup","firmware_version":898,"configurator_version":"0.53","obj":[{"tx_config":{"rfm_type":0,"max_frequency":463000000,"flags":1342177280,"chmap":[0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15]},"bind_data":{"version":56,"serial_baudrate":115200,"rf_frequency":458750000,"rf_magic":2367824339,"rf_power":7,"rf_channel_spacing":5,"hopchannel":[65,54,75,25,71,57,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0],"modem_params":2,"flags":2}}]}

    {"type":"RX_configuration_backup","firmware_version":898,"configurator_version":"0.53","obj":{"rx_type":1,"pinMapping":[33,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,38,38,36,37],"flags":2,"RSSIpwm":255,"beacon_frequency":446043750,"beacon_deadtime":0,"beacon_interval":20,"minsync":3000,"failsafe_delay":100,"ppmStopDelay":0,"pwmStopDelay":0}}
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    John Wrennall
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    Re: openLRS and 2.4 Ghz and Submarines

    Post  John Wrennall on Sat May 30, 2015 3:02 pm

    Hi all.

    Thought that this may be of interest to the soldering iron brigade.

    Its a Aircraft site (no engine reverse) and 2.4Ghz but no doubt a 458 module will substitute

    http://www.singlechannel.co.uk/

    ARCHIVE  tab

    P16 and P 17 for schematic and Arduino C code

    (can anyone add reverse and change arduino C to PIC assembler or basic??)

    John
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    david f
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    Re: openLRS and 2.4 Ghz and Submarines

    Post  david f on Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:12 pm

    I promised to post details of how to use the telemetry options of openLRS with the FrSky Display screen and Telemetry Hub.

    (John - I am not sure about converting C to Assembler because one reason to use C is that it stops it being specific to just one device. You may be able to do some conversion within the Microchip C compiler, but I haven't looked.)

    The display screen mounts on your transmitter and  gives a wide set of options to give you data - most useful for aircraft, it has to be said.

    The Telemetry hub goes at the receiver end and you can plug various sensors into it. It is designed to be used with an FrSky receiver but the clever openLRS community have included its use in their software.

    First thing though is should you use the telemetry option?

    Plus points:

    - Signal strength data is very useful - it shows both the transmitter and receiver signal strength.

    - Getting data back form the model sub is novel and could be useful e.g battery voltage for Lipos , or depth perhaps.

    Minus points:

    - I find the telemetry option gives servo jitter.
    - The data hub and sensors contribute to the "cable jungle " in the close confines of model subs without adding that much to functionality. (I operate my subs more in "seat of pants" mode!)

    Overall my conclusion is that I will only be using telemetry for setting aerials up or getting initial data from subs during development. For day to day sub operation I will just use the simple setup I outlined earlier in conjunction with a Walkie Talkie. The Walkie Talkie provides a useful signal strength indication and has potential for lost model detection. (I will always continue to use an audio Pinger.)

    But here goes - the connection data for the telemetry modules:

    First get your hardware. Copy of my order and what I paid at the time:

    OrangeRx Open LRS 433MHz 9Ch Receiver 1  US$19.95   IN STOCK
    FrSky FLD-02 Telemetry Display Screen 1  US$19.95   IN STOCK
    OrangeRX Open LRS 433MHz Transmitter 100mW (compatible with Futaba radio) 1  US$19.99   IN STOCK

    FrSky Battery Voltage Sensor - FrSky Telemetry System. 2  US$2.46   IN STOCK
    FrSky FSH-01 Telemetry Sensor Hub 1  US$14.10   IN STOCK
    FrSky TEMS-01 Telemetry Temperature Sensor 2  US$3.19   IN STOCK

    FrSky FLD-02 Telemetry Display Screen 1  US$19.95   IN STOCK
    OrangeRX Open LRS 433MHz Transmitter 100mW (compatible with Futaba radio) 1  US$19.99   IN STOCK

    FrSky Battery Voltage Sensor - FrSky Telemetry System. 2  US$2.46   IN STOCK
    FrSky FSH-01 Telemetry Sensor Hub 1  US$14.10   IN STOCK
    FrSky TEMS-01 Telemetry Temperature Sensor 2  US$3.19   IN STOCK


    You will also need to get out your soldering iron and get very few electronic components to assemble 2 simple little inverter circuits. One for the TX and one for the RX. Make it up in "dead bug" mode just soldering the component leads together as in the circuit diagram. The circuit diagram follows:




    The diagram comes from the openLRS wiki (a very useful source of information:


    https://github.com/openLRSng/openLRSngWiki/wiki

    Tim S gives a lot of background on the telemetry, photos of the setup and the reason for needing the inverters on the SubPirates Forum.

    You can use almost any small signal NPN transistor. (I used a BC548 because I had some handy.)

    LCD Monitor on TX

    I will now describe how to connect up the data monitor on the TX to the openLRS TX module. I refer to the labels on the circuit diagram.

    -Connect the TX pin on the Orange module (This is the 2nd pin from the left, next to the DTR pin)  to the TX connection on the inverter.

    -Connect the 3.3 v pin on the module (4th pin from the left ) to the +3v3 connection on the inverter.

    -Connect the GND pin on the module (5th pin from the left) to the GND connection on the inverter.

    - Connect the Smartport connection on the inverter to the TX pin on the Monitor. (2nd pin from Left)

    - Connect +3v3 connection on inverter to +5v pin on monitor(3rd from Left)

    - Connect GND connection on inverter to GND pin on monitor (4th from Left.)

    Plug the module in, switch on the TX and the display should light up. Rotate and press the selector switch (opposite side to the plug pins) to go through the pages.

    Sensor Hub  at RX

    Next using the sensor hub. (You will need another inverter circuit.):

    (In the latest edit I have included some later information from Tim S about battery voltage monitoring. Thanks Tim.)

    The Hobbyking orange receiver connections are given here:

    https://github.com/openLRSng/openLRSngWiki/wiki/Hardware-Guide

    Connections to Orange RX pins next to the aerial. (DTR pin is next to aerial.)

    - Connect GND pin (2nd pin from left) on the Orange RX to GND on the inverter.

    -Connect 3.3v pin (3rd pin from left) on the Orange RX to +3v3 connection on the inverter.

    - Connect RX pin on Orange RX (4th pin from left) (DTR is 6th pin from left) to SmartPort pin on inverter.

    Connecting to sensor hub:

    -Connect 2nd pin from the left on the Data connection of the Sensor Hub to TX connection on inverter.

    - Connect 4th pin from the left (GND) on the Data Connection of the Sensor Module to GND on the invertor.

    - Connect servo type cable from + - on sensor hub to any free servo connector on the RX.

    Plug a sensor in (temperature is simplest) and you will see this come up on the LCD display. Hold the temperature sensor and you will see the temperature rise. Unless you are cold-blooded!

    If you want to monitor battery voltage you will need a voltage divider network either home made or from FrSky. Connect the 0 to 3.3 voltage from this to either Port 10 (The SDA connection) or Port 11 (The SDL connection.) on the RX. (These connections are at the top LHS of the RX board. They don't have connectors fitted and so I soldered pins to Port 10 & 11 so that I could connect a trailing lead.)

    The LCD display now gives you battery voltage. (Adjust the voltage divider in the LCD display software to get the right value.)

    The next thing I intend to try is connecting an Orange TX module to any transmitter with a trainer plug. (I have a lot of old transmitters including ones for 35Mhz that could do with a new lease of life. I imagine you have too!)


    Last edited by david f on Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:15 pm; edited 6 times in total
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    John Wrennall
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    Re: openLRS and 2.4 Ghz and Submarines

    Post  John Wrennall on Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:55 pm

    Query?

    3v3 seems to be used a lot with these 433/458 modules. Is this just a programming "enable" voltage or the main supply voltage?

    Anyone got a link to the data sheets?

    John

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    Re: openLRS and 2.4 Ghz and Submarines

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