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    Universal submarine hull

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    david f
    AMS Treasurer

    Posts : 1906
    Join date : 2010-11-10
    Age : 67
    Location : Cumbria

    Universal submarine hull

    Post  david f on Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:34 pm

    Again an experiment in taking a discussion off the Facebook site.Good to let this see the light of day again and thanks for some very useful contributions from the participants.

    Richard, please feel free to delete this if you don't think it is appropriate.

    Topic: Universal submarine hull Delete Topic|Reply to Topic
    Displaying posts 1 - 30 out of 33.12NextSteve Juden
    I have been thinking over the possibility of using the diving tube system from my Akula in other submarine hulls, I know of two others who swap over the dive system into other boats and thought about expanding this idea further.
    How about a generic lower submarine hull with rudder, dive fins and the dive system all fitted out but with a few different tops.
    The top above the waterline could be changed from a K to M1, M2, X1 or whatever.
    I know the lower hulls should be different lengths and widths, fins in different places, but for a non-scale boat the top half would be where all the detail is and it would allow a different sub for each day of the week, changing it for each sub display or dive session. Any ideas?
    over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post
    Andrew Lawrence
    Better off modelling U.S Nuke's, they all look alike to me. Seawolf, Los Angeles, Permit etc. Who'd know.
    over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post
    Steve Juden
    But the old Bitish stuff can look so different....
    Modern nukes require only a different name and a relocation of the fins.
    over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post
    Andrew Lawrence
    I know- I was being a tad facetious.

    M-class and K class are very similar, the former were converted K hulls anyway weren't they? Equally ill-fated too.

    I'm sure there is a market for a large scale K or M-class hull, I know Ramesh was interested in doing an M1 at some stage, with a working pop gun.
    over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post
    Richard J Huggett
    In the stuff that I've sent Paul C there is an article on that very boat Andy, an American guy built the M1 with a full working deck cannon, I believe it was for simulated warship battles. I don't doubt that Paul would do an extra copy for Ramesh....
    over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post
    Steve Juden
    ...and how about a top for the Free French sub Surcouf, with the big guns and the little float plane, very successful long range cruiser sub, a cross between the X1 and M2.
    I might have a go at building a small dynamic diving hull so that I can play about with a few different tops.
    I got the idea from a freind sailing at Bushy park, he built the 2ch Oberon in the photos, dives dynamically very well with its preset dive planes. He said that he might do a different top as the Oberon looks too much like a nuke and he wants some detail to make it interesting.....
    over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post
    Nigel Edmonds
    there's a surcouf around somwhere with a fully working deck gun think it was built by Bernie Woods,a masive boat I think it was over 8 feet long,I have been told that the chap who bought it of Bernie use to transport it on a roof rack, I did track the boat down some years ago but I cant remember who has it now,all I can remember is that he lives in kent or did and i seem to recal that he was quite involved with the lotus owner's club.
    over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post
    Andrew Lawrence
    Was that Chris Clark? He knew Nick Burge well, and took on a lot of his models after he died a few years ago. I met him at the last Sandown show three or four years back, and I seem to recall he had Lotus/Caterham 7, or at least one of the clones.

    Haven't seen or heard of him since then mind you.
    over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post
    Nigel Edmonds
    that name seem's to ring a bell I'am sure your on the money there Andy.
    over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post
    Steve Juden
    If its the same fella, he was also into diving. I had a photo of the sub on the roof rack after we did a show, he was really into getting it detailed...but then dropped off the radar.
    Think the show we did was Alfold or Merstham many years ago.
    I met Stuart from Newcastle at the Blackpool show once, he has since sold his one, only the guns worked.
    over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post
    Andrew Lawrence
    Chris was (is) a scuba diver. he did post quite a bit over at RCGroups, but stopped posting three or four years ago.

    over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post
    David Forrest
    More on topic , what is really needed is a universal, LIGHTER, model which will still fit in a car.

    A lot of the reason that people don't actually use larger models is the carrying of them and the need to partially dismantle them (This creates problems with linkages, trim etc etc.)

    One of the very impressive things about Adam's large K class seen at Barrow was that he had worked hard on being able to carry it!

    He recommends epoxy hulls and gas ballast systems to keep the weight down.

    And maybe factor in a smaller WTC in the Universal hull - smaller electronics, batteries, and low displacement superstructure = small ballast tanks.
    over a year ago · Delete Post
    Andrew Lawrence
    Something that isn't often mentioned about models with very small cylinders, is how the models behave when surfaced.

    The lightweight coupled by minimal displacement make the model bob about in a most unscale like way in anything but mill pond conditions. Once underwater, dynamic forces take effect, and this is less of an issue.

    Epoxy resin is undoubtedly a superior product to polyester, but that performance does come at a price and it is not so readily available i.e. you can't just hop it to the local Halfrauds and pick up a tin or two.

    With regards to ballast tank systems, just how is tank of gas lighter than a water pump? I would think there is minimal difference.
    over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post
    Steve Juden
    I agree with the bobbing about comment however one could always make the hull a little deeper as this project is obviously not for scale.
    A deep draught will allow plenty of mass to keep the boat moving in a straight even line and the ballast tank will only have to compensate for the above waterline area.
    Nice short model east to carry, fit across the back seat of a saloon car, swappable tops, no linkages to change as its all in the lower hull.
    Simples eh?
    over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post
    David Forrest
    A small amount of foam and some (removable) lead will easily add stability.

    Most simples! Yes?
    over a year ago · Delete Post
    Richard J Huggett
    K.I.S.S...
    over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post
    Ramesh Wheelerdealer
    Nice idea. As the lower half wont be scale anyways, how about it being a small self contained module with integrated drive and planes, instead of something that resembles a hull. No need to worry about top and bottom mateing, all top hulls being the same size,and adjusting linkages etc. Much like those small torpedo propulsion devices than run of a AA batery that you attach to the underside of toy boats to motorise them.


    Yes still interested in the M1. Has to big 1:48 or so. So many projects, so little time....
    over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post
    Andrew Lawrence
    If you start adding foam and lead, you're getting back to square one, aren't you?
    over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post
    Steve Juden
    The lower hull, in my mind at least, would be streamlined and as small as possible as the top half would each have their own trim ballast (lead and foam) for stability.
    As Ramesh and Richard say KISS like the torpedo motor thingeys
    BTW nice website Ramesh, I found it last weekend
    over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post
    David Forrest
    While we are looking at non-scale unerwater features, could I recommend my lead bar keel "Velcroed" on to the bottom of the hull.
    Very easy to adjust at the pondside and has never fallen off yet and when it does it is failsafe!
    I think that fullsize British submarines had something similar a drop keel (No Velcro perhaps.)
    over a year ago · Delete Post
    Nigel Edmonds
    I think they use a zip on the full size boats!
    over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post
    Andrew Lawrence
    I thought it was pop studs.
    over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post
    Steve Juden
    I think the E class used detachable weights, maybe some earlier ones too.
    Good idea about the velcro, ideal for fitting the tubes into the hull.
    over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post
    David Forrest
    I almost forgot. Put in a small separate WTC for a Pinger circuit. You would not want to lose it after all that.
    over a year ago · Delete Post
    David John Jacques
    I have been using one master lower hull with module dive system for a number of years which works very well, the divide line being just below the water line. I had to have separate ballast weights fof the three different hull tops I use but the changes work very well
    Dave Jacques
    over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post
    Steve Juden
    Well done David J, I was trying to think who told me about it.
    One of the regulars at Bushy Park has a universal boat hull that he uses for a tug, fishing boat and patrol boat as the lower half is the same.
    This system is just an extension fo that.
    What upper hulls do you use and how is the monster A class going?
    over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post
    David John Jacques
    The top hulls I used are all plank on frame construction.
    1 Upholder 1/48th scale
    2 Piranha 1/15th scale coastal operation design
    3 Gal 1/35th scale Israeli Navy. German type 205 design.
    The different scales fit the outline of the base hull which is also plank on frame. The module has two Engel tanks which can if needed be transferred if required.
    The A class is still used for display purposes. The weight and transportation became a problem a two man job. but is still in presentable condition.

    over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post
    Steve Juden
    Any photos, The upholder class I like and think that we should never have got rid of them, any SSK is more slent than a nuke and great for coastal defence. The Gal I know about, they use a lot of Gernan stuff, The Piranha I have seen photos of but never a model, quite rare.
    over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post
    Steve Juden
    another thought, how many differnt model subs can we get from a basic kit without converting it too much, ie Gal/205 or U570 with an ensigen becomes HMS Graph, U2540 with a little change to the tower becomes Wilhelm Bauer, anyone built a Darnell type S or T and converted it to a late model?
    Simples eh!
    over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post
    Andrew Lawrence
    Arrrrrgh, I think I'm going simple!
    over a year ago · Mark as Irrelevant · Report · Delete Post

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