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    St Albans Sub Aqua Club

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    Re: St Albans Sub Aqua Club

    Post  Guest on Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:04 am

    I wouldn't consider that a major hazard. We have one or two boats with scimitar props (e.g. Lafayette, Akula) but the props edges are not sharp at all.

    Added to this, the prop is at the stern so is unlikely to come into contact under normal circumstances.

    But it's your choice.

    Tom(ADMIN)
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    Re: St Albans Sub Aqua Club

    Post  Tom(ADMIN) on Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:06 am

    Ok Andy, thanks for that...much appreciated.
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    nigele(ADMIN)2
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    Re: St Albans Sub Aqua Club

    Post  nigele(ADMIN)2 on Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:38 am

    Morning Andy,
    Yes I contacted Walker Midgley sometime ago relating to this issue,this is the quote they gave me,there'nothing on the policy that says you cannot run your sub in a pool full of people,but you are responsable for insuring that your submarine is opperated in a safe enviroment,again I would point out that this cannot be considered a safe enviroment,allso I would draw to you atenttion the proviso's they have just given you no sharp bits that could cover just about anthing from a mast to the edge of a dive plain,what constitutes high speed,what constitutes large.
    It is my belief that this is very thin ice,and I would bet that they will not pay out,but even that is not the main issue here we are talking hard fast heavy objects with a food procesor attached to the rear in the same proximity as people,even if you could convince yourself that you think the insurance company might on a cold day in hell pay up,could you live with the possible damage that could well be done to a member of the public should they come into contact with one off these boats,just imagine the fallout from this especialy god forbid it happens to a child.
    This is ill concieved and gung-ho and smacks of I am going to sail my boat and I dont care what the cost is to either the genral public or the reputation of the hobby and those who responsable take part in.

    [b]THE AMS WILL NOT CONDONE OR SUPPORT IN ANY FORM EVENTS THAT PUT SUBMARINES AND THE PUBLIC IN THE POOL AT THE SAME TIME.
    THE AMS STRONGLY RECOMENDS THAT IT'S MEMBERS GIVE SERIOUS THOUGHT TO THE POSIBLE CONSIQUENCES OF TAKING PART IN SUCH EVENTS.
    THE AMS STRONGLY RECOMENDS ALL POOL RUNS THAT DO NOT HAVE THE PUBLIC IN THE POOL AT THE SAME TIME AS SUBMARINES-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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    Re: St Albans Sub Aqua Club

    Post  Guest on Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:09 am

    Like I said I pointed out all the issues to Tony, and he said we would be covered, and this was the managing director I spoke to. If anyone is really bothered, I dare say they can get it in writing.

    Have you ever been to a model flying event at Old Warden?

    They allow the general public to walk around the field, including children where there are free flying planes whizzing about everywhere, they even have an event called the 'ebeneezers', which are planes that are often trimmed to fly erratically, and are highly unpredictable.

    This event is sponsored by 'Model Flyer' magazine, a major modelling publication.

    Now I don't know about you, but given the choice of a sub bumping into me, and getting a model aeroplane around the earhole, I know which I would choose. However I am willing to take the chance.

    I've also been to indoor flying events, held in indoor badminton courts, where the public are charged for admittance. Some of the models flying there are quite large.

    What happens if one of them goes out of control and ends up wrapped around someones head?

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    Re: St Albans Sub Aqua Club

    Post  Guest on Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:35 am

    The 'provisos' you mention were not the insurance companies, they were mine.

    I would consider high speed to be anything that goes above 5-6mph. The vast majority of the boats at our events only reach fast walking speed.

    The only thing Tony mentioned was that the swimmers should be supervised e.g. lifeguards should be present, which they always are.
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    nigele(ADMIN)2
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    Re: St Albans Sub Aqua Club

    Post  nigele(ADMIN)2 on Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:47 am

    Andy,
    Sure Andy that is perfectly true,but a couple of points you seem to have over looked when you buy a ticket for that kind of event as you quite rightly said you CHOOSE to do so,and in so doing accept the terms and condition assocciated with the sale of the said ticket,this is not the same situation by any stretch of the imagination, these people have turned up for there normal sunday morning swim,they have agreed nothing and they have not chosen the situation,this makes it a whole different ball game,what you are proposing is more akin with going down the local junior school walking in and setting of a rocket in the midle of the school assemble.

    Frankly I just cant get my head around anyone thinking its a good Idea to put submarines in the same pool as people,and if you cannot see how dangerous this is likely to be to both the public and modelers alike,I am sorry I have done the best I cant to try to point it out.

    Look Andy the only problem for the AMS is we cannot support a event that has the public in the water at the same time as submarines,you only have to concern yourself with your postion we, have to consider what is in the best interest of all our members and the assocciation,and unfortunatly this most definatly is not,and given the strenght of feeling I dont see that changing.
    There is in my view litle point in continuing this debate any further we have made our position quite clear.
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    david f
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    Re: St Albans Sub Aqua Club

    Post  david f on Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:28 am

    I just happened to notice that this thread is still ongoing, rather to my surprise.
    It does seem to have had some good effects though:

    (a)Andy now seems to be to be taking insurance rather more seriously. This contrasts with his previous views (See the thread on insurance elsewhere on this forum.) During your discussions I hope you took out insurance with Walker Midgley - it does not cost much.

    (b)Despite not being a member he just can't keep away from our forum (Despite his earlier protestations about the problems with the AMS - see Facebook etc.)and he is now having to come in wearing various disguises - Poolrun etc. Now who can that be I wonder?

    At this rate of change he may just drop the crazy idea of operating model submarines on an "anyone may turn up" basis (high speed submarine with working torpedoes and a perve-cam!)along with the public in a PUBLIC swimming pool. He may also realise how little he knows about model submarines!

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    Re: St Albans Sub Aqua Club

    Post  Guest on Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:44 am

    Bravo David, you have shown your true colours at last.
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    david f
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    Re: St Albans Sub Aqua Club

    Post  david f on Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:59 am

    Yes, these colours, as always.

    Just what colours are you flying this minute?



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    Re: St Albans Sub Aqua Club

    Post  Guest on Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:32 am

    I was referring to the character demonstrated in the nature of the posts you have made in this thread, David.

    I initially replied to your post with good and helpful information about the St Albans pool.

    You and Nigel then proceeded to take it completely off track by bringing up totally unrelated matters that had nothing to do with the St Albans venue. Now I disagree with quite a few things Nigel has said, but the level you have sunk to by insinuating that I am encouraging unsavoury practice by your mention of 'perv cams' and earlier comments of children are a disgrace IMO, and I think you have broken the rules of this forum by doing so.

    None of you passed any comment on last years event where we also shared the pool, and it is only since I removed my presence from the AMS facebook page and set-up an independent page for the Dive-ins that you have begun to make your protests.

    As to my disguises. I hide behind nothing, but am never keen on displaying my full name on public forums, as they're often hacked and details harvested- I prefer not to be a victim of identity theft and/or have my email spammed incessantly. Plus I quite like forum 'nicknames'- I think they're fun.
    I requested my original account deleted after complaints were received over my user name and after that was changed, my Avatar.
    Now I'm not sure what problem you have with the Sub Committee, you yourself were a long standing member until a year or two ago. What's the beef?

    Having departed I found myself being mentioned by name and some comments on this thread that no reasonable person would allow to go unanswered.

    Regarding insurance, I have never had model insurance, and possibly never will. I do however have personal liability protection included with my house insurance which covers me for the vast majority of mishaps that I might encounter.

    However as stated earlier, I expect people to take responsibility for themselves. My enquiry with the insurance company was chiefly to counter the suggestion that cover would be void in a venues like Brockwell. I was sure it was incorrect, and was proved right.

    In a nutshell, if you don't want to promote pool runs where we don't have exclusive use, then that is the decision of your society and i will respect that.

    However I am not prepared to put up with misleading information or insinuations that I am encouraging nefarious activity. Any more of this nonsense, and I will submit this thread to the forum owners, as IMO you have crossed the line. Just because this is an AMS forum, and I am not a member, it does not entitle you to write what you like about me or the events I organise.
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    david f
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    Re: St Albans Sub Aqua Club

    Post  david f on Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:50 am

    Andy,the only problem I have with the SubCommittee is its UK representative.
    As for any insult you feel, the remedy is quite simple - post on your own forums and not this one.
    Just to remind you that this forum is set up by the AMS. You barge in here under an alias, make provocative remarks, try to steal members away by various guises and then protest!

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    Re: St Albans Sub Aqua Club

    Post  Guest on Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:24 pm

    Eh?

    Go back and read the thread, mister, and find the provocative remarks I made.

    I think it's pretty obvious who is doing the goading.



    Tom(ADMIN)
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    Re: St Albans Sub Aqua Club

    Post  Tom(ADMIN) on Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:27 pm

    Enough of this, please...
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    david f
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    Re: St Albans Sub Aqua Club

    Post  david f on Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:42 pm

    Sorry Richard.
    Could I suggest that we close this thread off (If there is a way?)
    We have drifted way off topic and risk damaging what should be an excellent event at St Albans.
    If Andy wants to persist on posting in our forum perhaps he could start on another topic?

    Tom(ADMIN)
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    Re: St Albans Sub Aqua Club

    Post  Tom(ADMIN) on Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:45 pm

    Gentlemen, this thread is now LOCKED.

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